ALPS In Brief - Episode 67: Going ”Solo” in the Wilderness with Callie Russell

What does herding goats, surviving 3 months in the Canadian tundra, and eating porcupines have to do with practicing law? In this episode, Mark sits down with Callie Russell, star of Alone and Alone Frozen on Netflix, to discuss finding your inner strength and how to find happiness and warmth when everything seems dire. 

Transcript: 

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Hello, I'm Mark Bassingthwaighte, the risk manager here at ALPS. And welcome to the latest episode of ALPS In Brief, the podcast that comes to you from the historic Florence building in beautiful downtown Missoula, Montana. And yes, this is another one where I am back in the mothership, the main office, and it actually is just another gorgeous day here.

I just feel so privileged and excited about our guest today. It's Callie Russell. And Callie was a participant in season seven of Alone. And just had, again, an opportunity to hear her story. And it's just, oh my God, it's just an extraordinary story of what she experienced. And I would also like to say Callie, just an exciting, you're such an authentic person. And just it's an honor and pleasure to be in your presence. You bring such just authenticity to being, I don't know, human or something, to me. So it's again, a pleasure to have you here.

So before we jump in, can you just take a few minutes and share a little bit about yourself with our audience?

Callie Russell:

Sure, of course. Thanks for having me, Mark.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

You're welcome.

Callie Russell:

And I just have to start to say I do have roots in Montana. My father and grandparents and great-grandparents are all from the Flathead Valley. But unfortunately, I went to school down in Arizona, or maybe not unfortunately, it just is-

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

It is what it is.

Callie Russell:

It is what it is. But I would've liked to spend the time in the mountains. I always loved coming up here as a kid. And so growing up, we would go back and forth from Arizona to Montana quite a bit. And growing up down in Phoenix, I didn't have the connection to the food in the land that I was really yearning for as a young person. And I made this pact to myself when I was a teenager. I said, "I'm not going to eat meat until I figure out how to hunt or fish or raise farm animals." And so that led me to be a vegetarian for over a decade. But then it pushed me into the skills that I do now. So I practice ancestral skills, and I teach ancestral skills to children, teenagers, adults. And it all started with me wanting to seek that connection to food, that connection to land.

And so now, for over a dozen years, I've been practicing these skills and I've spent a lot of time out in the wilderness, sometimes by myself, sometimes with teenagers I've worked with and sometimes with my herd of goats. And so now I live, I move around, I'm nomadic a little bit, right? But I'm based up in the Flathead Valley up in Kalispell, and I have a herd of goats and I live off grid there. And my goats are milk goats and pack goats. So they're trained to carry packs. They just allow me to get out into the mountains and disappear out there.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Very cool. And how did you end up on Alone of all things? I'm thinking, and I know the answer to this a little bit already, but this is not something that you were pursuing and just, "Oh, I got to go out and do this." So share, how how'd we get here?

Callie Russell:

Yeah, that's right. I wasn't have any intention to go on a television show. In fact, I was sort of avoiding things like that. I wanted just to live out in the wilderness. That's what I wanted to do. So I was trying to gain the skills that would allow me to stay out in the wilderness for longer and longer periods of time. And I was just out there and I became quite feral really. The casting agent for Alone reached out to me. They found me through a friend of mine who, his name's Jim Knapp, he's a Canadian trapper. And he applied for the show, but then they didn't take him on the show, but they started asking him, "Well, who do you know? Who do you know? And what women do you know?" They were really looking for women because the casting agents were really struggling to find women that had the skills to be a part of a competition like this.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Right. I've seen some episodes of the show, I'd have to be honest to say, not a whole lot. And in part, my wife and I are cord cutters, so we have to be very intentional about what we want to watch. And we've been doing that for many, many years. But the premise of the show, for those of you, you're really placed out in some very rugged uninhabited spaces. And the whole point is to see who can survive how long, and the person that goes the longest, I guess, wins that season.

The stories that you shared today and this whole experience, it really is about survival. And I'd love just to share and have a little conversation about the things that enabled you to survive, the learnings. I loved you shared some things about... How do I want to say this? Some people early on as I sort walked away from all of this, were making lots of mistakes and to where you're tapping out because they're ill, they're sick, and can take them out as well if need be. You went, I won't spoil anything if people want to watch this. But you went a long time. How did you do that? How can you survive? Well, you explain where you were and of the environment you were in. But I loved taking care of your feet, as an example, those kinds of things.

Callie Russell:

Yeah. So we were all dropped... So the season I was on, season seven, took place in the Northwest Territories up in northern Canada. And that's technically the subarctic right there. We're just below the Arctic Circle. And we were dropped in late September, so going into winter, and should we do a spoiler alert here.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

That's okay, we can do a spoiler alert.

Callie Russell:

Spoiler alert. I was out there for 89 days and I got to spend that time really going deep with that land because we don't have any food and there's no camera crew. So everything that we're doing out there, we're self-documenting. And we're dropped very far. There's nine other participants, and we're dropped far out from each other. So we don't see each other, we don't hear each other, we're way far away. So we're out there alone surviving and living off of the land. Anything we want to eat, we have to find it ourselves. And we're self-documenting the whole time. And for me, the reason I think I was able to stay so long was the mindset that I went in there with. And I feel like no matter where you are in life, whether you're in the wilderness or you're in town, whatever, you're doing so much about, life is about mindset and the skills are important. All the skills that we hold and the survival skills that I had in my pocket were important. But I feel like the mindset piece is, there's so much power in that.

And I really went into that experience knowing that the wilderness isn't a place that's out to get me, that's out to hurt me or take advantage of me. I went out there knowing that the wilderness is there to hold me and it's where I come from. It's where humans have lived for much longer than how we're living today. So I knew that I was going back home in a sense. I was going to live and rediscover how humans have lived for so long.

And so I went into this experience with this really open mindset and willing to just let the experience be what it's going to be, and also let the land care for me in a way and know that everything I need is there. And going into the experience with an abundance mindset, not a scarcity mindset that, "Oh, there's not going to be enough and winter's coming and I have to hurry." And I did, I did have to hurry. I had to do a lot before that snow set in. But my mindset was abundance that I know it's going to work out. I know the land will take care of me.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

I love that. It ties into where I want to go to when you were talking about control. And if it were me, now, I obviously don't have the same kind of skills, but I can choose how to look at a situation like this and you can sit and say, "Oh my gosh, winter's coming. I don't have a hot shower. How am I going to get through?" Versus, "I can figure this out." And it's sort of a half glass empty, half glass full kind of approach at the outset.

Callie Russell:

Exactly.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

So let's explore this a little bit in terms of control. You had shared some stories and some insights and I love what you had to say about that.

Callie Russell:

Yeah. That's one of the things, because Alone wasn't my first time spending a large stretch of time alone and the wilderness. I had been spending time in the wilderness, but in places that I knew and was more familiar with the resources and the weather and all that. This definitely was a challenge that pushed me out of my comfort zone in many ways. But the wilderness has taught me, time and time again, that I'm not in control. And getting hit with a hard storm, it showed me how insignificant I am. I do not have any control over the weather. And there's so many big things that I literally have no control over. But I always have a choice. Even though I have no control over most things in life, I always have control over one thing, and that's my personal choice. What lens do I want to look things through?

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Yes.

Callie Russell:

How do I want to react? And for me, it's always looking for those doorways instead of walls, looking for how is this glass full, as you say, looking for the silver lining. And so for me, going out there, I was going out there trusting that it was going to work out how it needed to work out and that everything I needed was going to be there. And you also wanted to talk about the self care thing too.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Sure, let's go for it.

Callie Russell:

Okay. So also the wilderness has also showed me that being in the wilderness, a lot of people think that it's this thing, you just have to suffer through it. It's going to be uncomfortable, you're going to be cold, hungry, there's going to be bugs biting you, there's scary bears, it's this miserable sort of thing. And I had learned over the years how to really thrive in the wilderness and it not be the suffer fest be very enjoyable. And I learned how to take care of myself out there. I learned the right clothes to wear, where to camp that's a better place to camp and just things that make it a more enjoyable experience. And I learned that even in the wilderness, having good self care is very important, having good hygiene is important. Making sure you're hydrated all these things. And so I took that knowledge with me on Alone and knowing if I don't take care of myself and do those little self care things every day, that's something that could take me out of this competition.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Right. Am I correct in saying you prioritized the self care over even some of the major tasks that need to be done? Why would you do that?

Callie Russell:

Well, because in my experience, those little things that's in the wilderness, a little cut, you're like, "Oh, it's just a little cut. No worries. I don't need to worry about that." But little cuts can get infected really easily. And then you have this big festering infected wound that actually, now I can't use that hand. I can't hold an ax in that hand anymore because it's swollen. But if I would've just slowed down and taken care of that cut, soaked it in an herbal tea, found some wild yarrow or something, and soaked it in there and took care of that cut right away, it would be no problem. And so it's like that saying, a stitch in time saves nine. If you take care of something right away, you're saving yourself a much bigger problem.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

And let me comment on that just for a minute. Wellbeing is an extremely hot topic and a very, very important topic, particularly in the legal profession. Folks, when we think about the rate of various types of impairments and mental illness and burnout, I think the Callie's story really just underscores the significance, the value of saying, "Okay, I need to make sure that I am putting in, even if it's just a little time every day to take care of myself, to perhaps nurture," you're alone here in this, but nurture support systems, do whatever. Because if you don't focus on yourself at times and do these basics, you are going to end up... It may not be a swollen wrist in the wilderness, but it may be, I don't have the internal strength anymore to deal with all the craziness going on in my professional life and I'm burning out.

So I just want to underscore these little things, even if it's just take a break and have a cup of coffee, take a little time to enjoy the sunrise, the thunderstorms in the area, roll down the window, breathe the air in and listen to that lightning and rain. It's just gorgeous if you ask me. So I want to underscore that point. You had talked too about a time where you really were struggling and you had a moment that... Can we talk about that just briefly?

Callie Russell:

Sure. Yeah. There's a moment out there I had where I was struggling to find food that had fat in it. And I knew if I didn't do that, I would have to leave. And I really didn't want to leave. And it broke me down. I had ,so far up to that point, had been feeling like I was in a pretty positive mindset. Challenges would come up, struggles would come up, but I was okay. I just kept going and could just keep going with it. But this sort of broke me down and I was so sad to think that I would have to leave and it not be my choice to leave. And I had this sort of awakening a moment or a moment, some people might call it a moment of enlightenment or something like that. It was pretty profound. And it's hard to really capture the whole moment in words and be able to retell.

But I was standing on this cliff above this porcupine den that I was really hoping to catch this porcupine. And I kept being very unsuccessful with it. And I realized I was worrying so much about what could happen in the future, something that was out of my control if I was going to be pulled from this competition or not and that I was so sad about that because I wanted to stay. I wanted to keep being out there. And I realized in that moment, I'm so caught up in thinking about what may or may not happen in the future that I was missing out on what I actually wanted, which was just to be present and absorbed in this wilderness experience.

And this lesson I've been taught many times in the wilderness, I'm not in control. But this time it hit me in a whole new way and that, it hit me, I'm not in control. And I actually surrendered to it. Instead of just in my mind being like, okay, I logically understand I'm not in control. But it hit me and I actually surrendered. I let go. I let go of all the things that I'm not in control of. And it just opened so much up for me. It created all this space within myself. And I was actually sort of freed from my own mind and able to be present in that moment and see and experience life in a way I never had before.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

I love that. Why that spoke to me, I'm not a person that sort of believes in predestined fate and all this stuff, but I do believe that life, there are different ways to describe this, but things happen for a purpose. Things happen for a reason. We need to learn to listen to them and be open to where life is taking this and all this. And my point to all this is people have said to me at times, "Mark, you need to learn how to be present in the moment." And there's the mindfulness movement and I've never really gotten that. But what you explained when I was listening to it during your presentation and here now again, you really do a very good job. Just the light went on. That's what it means to be present in the moment, just to experience this now. No agendas, no worries, and just be in the grace, just enjoy. This is here and now. So I thank you for that. For one, it's just like, okay, little light went on there.

Callie Russell:

Yeah, it's amazing. I just realized I was the only thing in the way of what I wanted in that moment. What I wanted was to be really immersed in this wilderness experience. And I was there, but I was preventing myself from being fully immersed because I was worrying about the future. And when I realized that and was actually able to just let go of what may or may not happen in the future, I was actually able to get the exact thing which that I wanted, which was be there. And it's just so profound to realize I was the one... We always sort look elsewhere to blame circumstances and for what's going on and why things aren't working out. But just to realize every single day, I am the only one that gets to choose if I have a good day or not. I'm the one who gets to choose if I'm enjoying myself. And it doesn't matter the circumstances, all the circumstances, I'm not in control of all that. The only thing I get to choose is I still get to choose if I'm going to enjoy my day.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

And again, the circumstance of being in Alone and doing all this, I mean, what an extraordinary experience. But I think these kinds of lessons, learnings are applicable to all of us. I don't need to be alone pushing boundaries like you did in such an extraordinary way. But we all have our challenges every single day and there's a lot of things we can't control. Even as simple as just like, "Gosh, there's just too much traffic and I'm late to get to the hearing," or whatever it might be. But we can control how we respond to that, what we do with it. And to me that's very empowering because it keeps the world in perspective.

What would you say, wrapping some things up here, what are the takeaways? The growth, we've talked about some of this, but when you sit and say, okay, this was an extraordinary experience, 10, 20, 30 years from now, when you look back on this, how did you change? What growth was there for you? What's truly important out of all of this?

Callie Russell:

Well, one thing is I was started this path of learning these ancestral skills because I wanted freedom. I wanted the freedom to be able to go out into the mountains and be able to find food and take care of myself and live how our ancestors used to live. I wanted that sense of freedom. But practicing all this stuff, I realize true freedom is actually within myself, it's within my mind. And it doesn't matter how many skills I have, it depends on the thoughts that I'm thinking. The thoughts that I'm thinking are what allowed me to feel free or not free.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Got it, got it.

Callie Russell:

Yeah, the essence of true freedom.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Yeah.

Callie Russell:

And another thing with working with these skills, spending time in the wilderness and working with these skills is that it's really easy to feel alone in our world. And a lot of people ask me, "Oh, when you were on the show called Alone and you were all alone in the wilderness and it was negative 40 and you only had rabbits to eat, weren't you so lonely? How did you deal with the loneliness?" And I said, "I actually didn't feel lonely out there at all. I felt way more lonely when I was a teenager surrounded by people. I felt way more lonely when I was in college trying to get through college." And I was around people all the time. I was extremely lonely because I didn't have the sense of connection that I wanted, sense of connection with community, with other people, but also with other species.

There's a term that's been coined by Robin Wall Kimmerer, she's an author, called species loneliness. And that we as humans experience species loneliness because our culture, we're sort of brought up not really knowing about the natural world as much. So we don't know the different names, the different species of birds and the different species of trees, even the ones we're around all the time. And once you start making those connections with the natural world, you start to realize we're all connected and we're all a part of things. And working with this stuff is allowed me that sense of connection and time on the show has allowed me that sense of connection. And I think that it's just the web that we're all a part of and realizing we're not alone. We're not alone on our little island. We're all together, we're on the same island, we're in the same boat. And just opening up to that is, I think, so powerful and it feels so good and I'm so happy to be experiencing that and I'm so happy to be sharing that connection with other people.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Folks, one of the things that, because this is an audio podcast, there's lots of things you can't see, but during the presentation that Callie just gave here, we got to see a lot of screenshots and things from the TV show and some slides and things. Trust me when I say that this environment is beyond extreme. Just crazy, snow, cold. She's wrapped up on all kinds of stuff. But at the same time, she showed some photos of the space that she made that eventually even using her word, became home. And it's extraordinary. Rocks, they're flat rocks and she found some clay. I'm thinking mud. And builds a fireplace. And this space is gorgeous.

Now still, it can get 40 below. This is not glamping. But the thing that struck me throughout the entire presentation are these wonderful just glowing smiles and the ability to find the connection and to celebrate and appreciate all that's going on. I never heard you say... Life threw a lot of challenges at you. But as you said, "I'm not looking at the walls, I'm looking for the exits, the doors to keep moving forward." And to me it gets back to just, you are a living, breathing model for me in terms of saying you listen to your life at a level I think most people will never get to. And I just think that's awesome.

But I want you listening to us, folks... I can get emotional about this. She spoke to me in a very deep way. The ability to just see the beauty, appreciate the moment in the face of what so many of us would say is just adversity we could never even manage. But she also stepped in, she took the time to learn the skills. I'm rambling here a little bit. But to me, I guess I'd say it's a message of hope, it's a message of reminding us who really is in control. It's life. And other people can throw all kinds of things at us and we can't control that, but we can control how we respond. And ultimately, that's true control. So I hope you found something of value ina all of this stuff. But Callie, thank you so much for taking a little time to visit with us. Do you have any final thoughts you'd like to share? Anything?

Callie Russell:

Well, just another thing on what you're saying, the resilience of the human spirit.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Okay. Yes.

Callie Russell:

And we all have that. Some people think, "Oh, I would never be able to do that." But I think we all surprise ourselves when we're actually thrown into a challenging situation that we all have a resilient human spirit. And when we are thrown into a thing that we think we can't do and we try to do it anyway, there's so much joy and empowerment coming through that other side. And so to embrace. Embrace that discomfort, embrace getting out of the comfort zone and knowing that we are all stronger than we think we are. And I know me going through that experience when I started, I didn't think it was something that I'd be able to do. It felt like it was too big for me. But I went through anyway and I came out the other end feeling very empowered and realizing I'm stronger than I thought I was.

And I think it's the case for everybody. And so I think that's an important piece. And I think sometimes too knowing, when the life I was living before I started following that pull. I kind of felt this tug on my heart or my soul or something that was like, you need to be doing something else. Before I started listening to that, that I could have kept struggling through the job that I had, or the work that I was doing. But I knew there's a kind of difference between having a hard situation and overcoming it and keeping yourself in a hard... You're creating that hard situation that you know isn't good for you too. And having that courage to say, "Hey, this isn't the kind of struggle that I need in my life. What can I do to change it? How can I change my life so it feels better for me?" And I think that ties into the self care piece.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I appreciate that. Wow. Again, so much stuff. Again, wrapping all this up, to me, Callie's story and experiences is truly at the end of a day, a message of hope that when any of us are facing challenging times, get overwhelmed with work, struggling with whatever our personal demons are, take it one step at a time. Understand you are in control of you, how you respond. Look for the exits or look for the doors.

Callie Russell:

Doorways.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

Because that's how you grow. And I do, I love this message and you found this, discovered it yourself in very awesome meaningful ways. We all have strengths in us and we just don't know. So have a little faith. Put that smile on, put your feet in the grass, just start moving and good things will come. So again, folks, thanks for listening. I hope you have a good one. And I look forward to listening with you next time on ALPS In Brief.

Callie Russell:

And get outside.

Mark Bassingthwaighte:

And get outside. I love it. Thanks, Callie. Okay folks, bye-bye.